JMS on Usenet

Message

Subject: Re: OMD Irony
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:37:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "jmsatb5@aol.com" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe

On Dec 3, 9:32=C2=A0pm, Hand-of-Omega  wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2:28 pm, Tony  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 8:38pm, "ozandy"  wrote:
>
> > > "grinningdemon"  ha scritto nel messaggionews:1er4l3lurpseu0n0ejult4fabhc2906d4j@4ax.com...
>
> > > > On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 19:31:34 -0800, Michael 
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > >>badbad wrote:
>
> > > >>> Tony wrote:
>
> > > >>>> Back during the Clone Saga, when Marvel was trying to figure a way to
> > > >>>> backpeddle and put Peter back in the suit, there were many scenarios
> > > >>>> writers and editors came up with. A couple of them featured cosmic/
> > > >>>> supernatural outs, but the editors wisely realized that using Judas
> > > >>>> Traveller or Mephisto to under/mastermind the Clone Saga was too far
> > > >>>> away from the world of Spider-Man.  It's a shame the current
> > > >>>> editorial regime doesn't realize that.
>
> > > >>>> Tony
>
> > > >>> Why couldn't they have used Dr. Bong instead of Mephisto?  Dr. Bong
> > > >>> hits Spidey on the head. Then the clones, neo Gwen Stacy, Civil War and
> > > >>> everything after is a delirious concussion.
>
> > > >>> Why couldn't they have said that everything after issue 280 was all fake
> > > >>> because J. Jonah Jameson used the cosmic cube because Peter used Nair on
> > > >>> Man-Wolf?
>
> > > >>> Why couldn't they have said that everything after issue 320 was a
> > > >>> nightmare caused by indigestion when Peter eats Mary Janes first
> > > >>> home-cooked meal?
>
> > > >>> Why make a re-boot with a supernatural creature when it isn't even one
> > > >>> of Spidey's traditional villains?
>
> > > >>> Why don't they hire editors?
>
> > > >>> Why?
>
> > > >>> Why? Why? Why?
>
> > > >>> Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
> > > >>> Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
> > > >>> Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
> > > >>> Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
> > > >>> \
>
> > > >>> badbad
>
> > > >>They DO hire editors!
>
> > > >>WHAT those editors DO these days is a mystery to me.
>
> > > >>Play Jarts I guess.
>
> > > >>Michael
>
> > > > Actually, this whole storyline...and Civil War...and Sins Past
> > > > (basically all of the most hated Marvel stories of recent years) have
> > > > been chiefly shaped by editorial decisions (Quesada in
> > > > particular)...they question is not "what they do?" so much as "why
> > > > haven't they been fired yet?" I say bring in the monkeys with
> > > > typewriters...it's bound to be an improvement.
>
> > > Actually, I don't know what you guys are crapping on about. One more day was
> > > getting a bit boring until Mephisto appeared in this issue. I'm actually
> > > interested in the next issue of SSM for once. Although I must admit the Dr
> > > Bong idea isn't bad :-}
>
> > > Andy- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --largely the fact that Mephisto has no place in Spider-Man stories,
> > and MORE IMPORTANTLY, he's being used as the vehicle to UNmarry Peter
> > and MJ. Which is an idea that sucks so much it's in the annals of
> > suckiest ideas ever.
>
> I know I said I feel for JMS, but the more I think about it, the
> angrier I get at him for this. Is he REALLY onboard for this? Does he
> actually think this is a good idea? Or is he just following orders,
> like with the Gwen's kids story?
>
> I admit to not following ALL of his work, but what I have read and
> watched seemed touched with uncommon wisdom. The issue where Dr.
> Strange is explaining to Peter that he must let go of May and
> why...THAT seemed like the authentic voice of JMS. I honestly believe
> that, if he actually owned this property and was his own boss, then
> Peter would of course be tempted, very much so...But he would
> ultimately refuse. Because, while painful and hard, it is the Right
> thing to do.
>
> Can someone who has read most or all of JMS' work tell me if I am
> wrong here? Is that not a story he would tell?
>
> If not, then I guess he wasn't the writer I thought he was. If so,
> then what the hell is he doing writing this?
>
> I mean, if your boss tells you to write a story that you honestly
> think is a bad idea, then wouldn't it be the right thing to do to
> stand up and say so? Sure you might lose your job, but the truth is
> where it needs to be. PAD refused to dump on the Hulk when ordered to,
> and he still gets lots of work from Marvel. And it's not like JMS is
> some unknown company writer, surely he can get work at ANY comic
> company. Hell, he doesn't have to work for anyone!
>
> Is it just the fun of playing in Marvel's sandbox? Well, he's done
> that for awhile now, but if they keep forcing these kinds of decisions
> on him, then how much fun can that really be? I'm really trying not to
> think of him as a shill who just does whatever the boss demands, but
> it's getting more and more diffficult not to...
>
> As things now stand, there's only two possibilities that give me hope
> about this: One is that all the hype is just that, hype. That, at the
> last moment, on the final page, Parker really *does* do the right
> thing and tells Mephisto to go shove it. Comicdom breathes a longheld
> sigh of relief, Joey Q gets his immature little thrill at having
> ramped up reader tension, and JMS' integrity remains intact.
>
> Or (and much more likely) they do go thru with it...But it's not all
> cut and dried as we were led to believe. We're in for, say, a year of
> single Spidey stories, but he starts to realize something is wrong,
> and eventually a series of events occurs which restores the marriage.
> Which they had planned all along (altho many skeptical fans will of
> course claim that they simply reversed their disastrous course when
> sales plummeted). Same result as above? If it really is a long term
> plan, then...maaaybe.
>
> Sorry for the rambling rant. On with the newsgroup!^_^
>
> Dex- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Speak of the devil and he shall appear....

For whatever it's worth, the situation is not as clear cut as one
might hope.  The reality of any writer working for any company, DC or
Marvel or Image, is that when you're handed a franchise character,
you're basically entrusted with something that the company owns, and
the company has final say in what happens to that character, because
as a writer, you're only there for a certain amount of time and then
the next guy has to come in.  Spider-Man belongs to Marvel, not to me,
and at the end of the day, however much I may disagree with things,
and however much I may make it very CLEAR to all parties that I
disagree, I have to honor their position.

In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-
rode that, which is his right as EIC.  I got the flack for that
decision, but them's the breaks.

In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I
made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel,
especially Joe.  I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the
decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last
two issues of the OMD arc.  Eventually Joe talked me out of that
decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe
or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those.  As an
executive producer as well as a writer, I've sometimes had to insist
that my writers make changes that they did not want to make, often
loudly so.  They were sure I was wrong.  Mostly I was right.
Sometimes I was wrong.  But whoever sits in the editor's chair, or the
executive producer's chair, wears the pointy hat of authority, and as
Dave Sim once noted, you can't argue with a pointy hat.

So at the end of the day, all one can do is try to do the best one can
with the notes one is given, and try to execute them in a professional
way...because who knows, the other guy may be right.  The only thing I
*can* tell you, with absolute certainty, is that what Joe does with
Spidey and all the rest of the Marvel characters, he does out of a
genuine love of the character.  He's not looking to sabotage anything,
he's not looking to piss off the fans, he genuinely believes in the
rightness of his views not out of a sense of "I'm the boss" but
because he loves these characters and the Marvel universe.

And right or wrong, you have to respect that.

jms